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Losing The Numbers With The Elman Induction

Losing The Numbers With The Elman Induction

You know, there are so many hypnotists of ages and backgrounds who have had the same problem when using the Dave Elman Induction with their clients... they all say that the client just can't lose the numbers.
This is more common than one might think but with some thought, perhaps the
situation can be eliminated and we can all move on to the work at hand.

First, we must change the terminology when we say that the client will "lose" the numbers...nobody will "lose" numbers. Our brains just won't let that happen. You're telling
that client to do something they just can't do.
During the process, the numbers actually "fade" from the
conscious mind so, if they really want to find those numbers...they will! The
numbers never really leave. the idea is this, have the numbers fade away so
that if they want to find the numbers they would have to go look for them.
Remember, when you talking to the subconscious mind...the subconscious mind is
totally literal.

If you are reading the original Elman induction, there is no mention of "losing" the numbers ...he actually used " Slowly begin counting out loud, backwards, starting with
the number 100. Saying the words, deeper relaxed... And relax those numbers
right out of your mind ...let them grow dim and distant." Now, this is a
lot different from "losing" the numbers for sure. You see, the
literal part of the conscious mind understands what dim and distant means but
when you tell them to "lose" the numbers, the conscious mind has got
to analyze it and thinks "Oh, what they really mean is this" the
subconscious mind doesn't do this so, how you present it to the mind is so

It is important to realize WHY things are done a certain way and HOW they happen...this way you are more likely to be able to go back and work out the situation.

Below is the "numbers" part of the original Dave Elman induction and
again...he does not say for the client to lose the numbers.

the body's relaxed (------) so let's get the mind relaxed, that's really what
we want to do. When your mind's relaxed you really can achieve anything you can
think of, within certain restrictions of course. In a moment i'll ask you to
slowly begin counting out loud, backwards, starting with the number 100. After
each number, simply say the words, deeper relaxed. After each number double
your mental relaxation, let your mind grow twice as calm and still and serene.
Now if you do this, you'll discover by the time you just say a couple numbers,
doesn't take long, you've relaxed your mind so beautifully and so completely,
you've actually relaxed all the rest of the numbers out. Want that... And you
can have it quickly.

Slowly begin counting out loud, backwards, starting with the number 100. Saying the words, deeper relaxed... And relax those numbers right out of your mind.

(100 deeper relaxed.) That's good. (99 deeper relaxed.) That's fine. (98 deeper relaxed.) Now you can let those numbers grow dim and distant, there not important. (97 deeper relaxed.) And when your're ready just
push them out. (96 deeper relaxed.) Now push them on out, just tell them to
leave and they will go. Just let them go... And let them be gone.

... Numbers all gone ? (yes)

Views: 1166

Comment by John Cleesattel on July 30, 2010 at 6:22pm
I am all over that "How and Why" bandwagon Rich. Good post!

Comment by HypnoRich on August 2, 2010 at 10:33am
Thanks John...hope all is well with you!
Comment by Omar Alexandro on August 25, 2010 at 10:16pm
Rich thank you soooo much!!!!!! I have no words to thank you for so many advises... This is exactly what I was in need of. This was my mistake every time... Cuz I used to see them having a hard time to remember the numbers, but not forgetting them
Comment by Benjamin Jay Wight on November 5, 2010 at 6:23pm
Great again Rich. Too many people forget that permissive processes are often the most effective and that the Elamn especially is a permissive induction. We should be helping the mind acheive things - not making things happen to the mind because the experience is not seperate from the mind.
And of course who can argue that just playing out a process is not as powerful as when you understand teh process and the motivations and reasons behind it. The how and why are so important! Once again very helpful. :)
Comment by Davey Jones on November 22, 2010 at 2:32pm
Rich, according to Elman, there is the possibility of aphasia, the inability to speak ( Elman's book), which could result in artificial somnambulism. He (Elman) recommends that to change artificial somnambulism to true somnambulism you could say:" When I drop your hand the lights will be out and the numbers will be gone".
Comment by Chet Payne on December 6, 2010 at 7:59pm
Rich this makes me wonder, maybe I should start using the original Dave Elman instead of the modified. Hmmmm
Comment by Aino - akpolarmom on December 13, 2010 at 12:20am

Well despite my ability to drop into a trance, Elman has not worked for me as far as the numbers go. Now it has only been done with skype or a recording, but recently after discussing it in a skype room a couple of the hypnotist there mentioned that it could just be a fact that i had made it int a limiting belief, and convinced myself it wouldn't work. One of them proceed to tell me that he would fix that and  he started the Elman up but when he  came to the numbers part, he substituted the alphabet... I remember chuckling over that, but it worked great, and by 'F' or 'G'  I was deeply in and quite a bit amused.

The deal was for me I would never try to use disappearing numbers because it didn't work for me.... I would never have come across congruent. But  with a new look on the problem and  with new light shed here I may attempt it again, that is if I have a in person client to work with.


Always Looking for More Tools,



Comment by Davey Jones on December 13, 2010 at 6:09am

Aino, an easy way to test for true somnambulism is to regress client to last day at kindergarten. Question them and take note of the answers - look out for "I think I am..." . This way you can be sure you do not have artificial somnambulism, as some clients will tell you that the numbers are all gone, just to please you, or even stop counting all together, which could be aphasia.  

Comment by HypnoRich on December 13, 2010 at 10:47am

Great answer Michael!

Comment by Omar Alexandro on January 23, 2011 at 4:06pm

Hello, everyone. I want to share something, and please let me know what you think about it!

I had a patient whom just couldn't loose the numbers. He was absolutelt relaxed and had symptoms of trance, but wasn't able to relax the numbers. So I asked him this: "Stop counting now. In a moment I'll ask you a question. You can analyze it if you want to, but you won't do it. Just let it go. Ignore the question and relax much more. Are you ready? How much is 2+2?"


 He didn't answer, which means he's relaxed enough to let go the problem without solving it. So, after that, I asked him to let go the numbers again, and he did easily.


 How effective do you all see this? Was it just luck?


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